Curse

Selket · Jul 12, 2006, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Wasn't the original idea of pve supposed to be that a character would play through the game on their pve character and decide then to pvp, still using that character.

Or something.

But of course, it turned out people liked the ability that they could have just one open slot and make any character they please out of it.

Technically, everyone is on an even playing field since nothing is stoping you from making a pvp-ready pve character, just your own laziness. Everyone has the option to pvp with a pve or pvp character, nothing is stopping you from doing anything, its not like your account can't make a pvp character or something.

Big_L · Jul 12, 2006, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

Last I checked... Pve couldn't reroll and still use their customized weapons and armors either. All of my warriors axes/swords/hammers are customized to her. It really is a requirement in a lot of guilds too. So, again, how is this an issue?

oO?
You stated earlier that PvP chars have inventories and are able to use any weapons and items they grab from storage. This is simply not viable as weapons you pull from storage cannot be customized to the PvP character realistically. Not to mention the amount of expensive items that would get accidentally deleted due to PvPers recreating so frequently. What does recreating a PvE character have to do with it? And whats all this about a requirement in guilds

?

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selket

Technically, everyone is on an even playing field since nothing is stoping you from making a pvp-ready pve character, just your own laziness. Everyone has the option to pvp with a pve or pvp character, nothing is stopping you from doing anything, its not like your account can't make a pvp character or something.

Of course this is true. The point is that people shouldn't feel the need to spend all the time and money building a pve character just to be competetive in pvp. Why should someone be forced to do something they hate in order to get to the game they want to play? Its not "lazy" because it should never feel like "work" to begin with.

lyra_song · Jul 12, 2006, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

Last I checked... Pve couldn't reroll and still use their customized weapons and armors either. All of my warriors axes/swords/hammers are customized to her. It really is a requirement in a lot of guilds too. So, again, how is this an issue?

The issue is this. You had to grind in PvE to get those weapons.

To be truly competitive in PvP, you have to grind in PvE.

shadowfell: Please agree or disagree with this statement:

If you roll a PvP char with ZERO items from your PvE chars (items in storage), you can be JUST as competitive and are on an even playing field as a fully grinded PvE char.

Yes its a trap.

If you agree, you contradict yourself, because you already said that PvErs have an advantage.

If you disagree, i wanna know why you accept this and dont want to resolve it.

Dougal Kronik · Jul 12, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by milan

simple, prevent pve characters from entering pvp. Problem solved, want to pvp create a pvp character, want to pve, create a pve character.

This would actually solve all of your issues - except the vanity ones where you want to show off your 15k armor (which you got from playing and not grinding).

Lock PvE characters out of the PvP arenas.

Only allow them in Alliance Battles, Jade Quarry, and Fort Aspenwood. There is your PvE characters PvP environments!

Selket · Jul 12, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_L

Of course this is true. The point is that people shouldn't feel the need to spend all the time and money building a pve character just to be competetive in pvp. Why should someone be forced to do something they hate in order to get to the game they want to play? Its not "lazy" because it should never feel like "work" to begin with.

You need to spend time to be competetive.

If you just bought the game you have no unlocks, you are not competetive at all, you have to work for faction for unlocks or play through pve for unlocks. No matter what you're forced to do one or the other. With a pvp character you're just as competetive, the ability to switch armor doesn't affect anything - switching to vs physical armor doesn't do anything the warrior knows how to play as they will recognize the fact that their damage is lower than it should be and switch to an elemental weapon. No matter how many items you have and how leet your character can be better players still roll you no matter what. Switching headpieces doesn't matter, you'll still drop as fast as you did the first time.

JR · Jul 12, 2006, 03:06 PM // 15:06

- Disable Inventory in PvP.

-Give PvP characters four weapon slots.

- Add the ability to select any inherant mod for weapons and offhands in the PvP creation screen, instead of selecting seperate items from a list.

I don't honestly see how this would be anything but a good thing.

lyra_song · Jul 12, 2006, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

This would actually solve all of your issues - except the vanity ones where you want to show off your 15k armor (which you got from playing and not grinding).

Lock PvE characters out of the PvP arenas.

Only allow them in Alliance Battles, Jade Quarry, and Fort Aspenwood. There is your PvE characters PvP environments!

I dont think we should be forced to roll a PvP char just to PvP. Thats unconstitutional (insert laugh track here). j/k. I just severely disagree with that idea.

-------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selket

You need to spend time to be competetive.

If you just bought the game you have no unlocks, you are not competetive at all, you have to work for faction for unlocks or play through pve for unlocks. No matter what you're forced to do one or the other. With a pvp character you're just as competetive, the ability to switch armor doesn't affect anything - switching to vs physical armor doesn't do anything the warrior knows how to play as they will recognize the fact that their damage is lower than it should be and switch to an elemental weapon. No matter how many items you have and how leet your character can be better players still roll you no matter what. Switching headpieces doesn't matter, you'll still drop as fast as you did the first time.

Yes you do have to grind. Either PvP or PvE to UAX.

But you are wrong in saying that a PvP character is just as competitive. The posts here already show that a PvE character has the advantage.

A PvE can get ALL the skills (provided you grind for long enough a time -.-;; which i also attempt to resolve with crazy idea #3) and has access to a much larger and more diver weapon and armor pool, as well as a much larger inventory for carrying more swapping weapons and armor options.

In fact the arguement that I feel we are having is wether or not that advantage should stay in game or be removed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

- Add the ability to select any inherant mod for weapons and offhands in the PvP creation screen, instead of selecting seperate items from a list.

Do you mind if i add this idea to the OP?

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Jul 12, 2006, 03:10 PM // 15:10

[sarcasm]How bout removing PvP-only characters once and for all?
Now wouldn't that be swell?

Everyone is "equal", no more further "equalization" needed.[/sarcasm]

There are much better ideas to "equalize" PvE and PvP, locking out inventories is not one of them.

[url=http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109382]Equipment Master for PvP-only characters[/quote]

Reference Threads:
Today | bilateralrope | Lock the inventory window closed when in PvP

Equipment Masters for PvP-only characters
These various NPCs, placed at all PvP outposts, will hand out various equipments for PvP-only characters, provided that those items have been unlocked.

1. Balthazar's Armor Smith
- All types of Armor sets

2. Balthazar's Rune Keeper
- All types of Runes

3. Balthazar's Weapons Master
- Swords, Hammers, Axes
- Bows, Daggers
- All weapon Upgrades
- Shields

4. Balthazar's Archmage
- Staves, Rods
- Staves Upgrades
- Focus Items

5. Balthazar's Sage
- Change 2nd Profession
- Usable by PvE characters as well

--------------------------------------
(A few people suggested that this one is un-necessary for the PvP-only characters)
(One suggested that Balthazar's Faction can be used to "buy" dyes for PvP-only characters)
(Sir Mad does not agree with this)
6. Balthazar's Dyes Distributer
- Dyes

All retrieved equipment will be customized to the PvP character who collected them.

Discuss.

Poll:
You like the idea described above and would like to see ANET implement it.
Yes (20)
=====
Tuoba Hturt Eht, Zui, zhai, bilateralrope, Frostie Arrows, reverse_oreo, TheOneMephisto, noob4sure, B Ephekt, TheGuildWarsPenguin, Embodiment Of Gaia, Nilator, TomD22, kazz, prism2525, Tetram The Troll, Afterimage, Beat_Go_Stick, Sphinx2k, Sir Mad

No (0)
=====

dreamhunk · Jul 12, 2006, 03:11 PM // 15:11

what people are asking here is to change the meta game! gw is not a fps! from a box it is an rpg!

agin if anet does this they are moving away from what they promised what this would be.

gw is not a pvp from a box! If anet changed it would be trouble legaly

I would people from anet to take a good look this why pvp and rpg players will not get along.

this will only hurt the game!

Selket · Jul 12, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

-Give PvP characters four weapon slots.

You already have four weapon slots.

lyra_song · Jul 12, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamhunk

what people are asking here is to change the meta game! gw is not a fps! from a box it is an rpg!

agin if anet does this they are moving away from what they promised what this would be.

gw is not a pvp from a box! If anet changed it would be trouble legaly

I would people from anet to take a good look this why pvp and rpg players will not get along.

this will only hurt the game!

Oh noes not you again! XD Ok lets address this one painful typo at a time.

The meta game is ALWAYS changing. Listen to WOC #40. They want the game to feel new and fresh, thats why they make some skill changes not to nerf but to shake things up a bit.

Yes GW is not a FPS. That much i agree with.

From the box it says RPG? Ok...so? What does that have to do with the PvP modes in the game? Nothing.

"moving away from what they promised". They promised RPG? Well theres an RPG in there, a mediocre one, as you would say. But it seems to me its still in there.

GW is not a PvP out of the box? You are correct, it doesnt say it on the box. So? If you dont want to PvP, then dont. As much as id love to "coax" people to PvP, i doubt that will happen anytime soon.

Trouble legally? For what? False advertisement? Theres an RPG in there. Theres PvP in there. Theres no FPS in there....

I'm pretty damn sure people from Anet are reading our posts. Izzy's responses on the WOC #40 interview DIRECTLY responded to some posts that were on this very forum, GWGuru. It shows that they are reading our ideas and rants/flames/non-sensical gibberish.

And i personally think that PvErs and PvPers can get along...to an extent. A lot of PvPers are incredibly competitive and their personalities would definitely clash with the more laid back PvErs. But any clash of personality leads to conflict, regardless of the situation, wether it be work, play, or whatever. This is a human issue, not a game issue.

Your last statement I severely disagree with. I am seeking to fix a problem. I dont see how that will ruin the game in anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selket

You already have four weapon slots.

False. Roll a PvP character. how many weapon sets are you allowed to make? Two.

How many weapon slots can you activate once the character is active? Four.

Four slots. But only Two weapon sets.

I direct you to my post here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...1&postcount=47

Selket · Jul 12, 2006, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Two weapon sets?

You can select four individual items, therefore there are 4 different combinations and weapon sets.

lyra_song · Jul 12, 2006, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selket

Two weapon sets?

You can select four individual items, therefore there are 4 different combinations and weapon sets.

Yes. But how functional are those combinations? Compared to a PvE char, how limited is that?

Ranger:
2 bows, 2 offhand items.

You have 2 offhand items but no weapon to use it with.

you could go:

1 bow, 1 staff, 2 offhand items

Now you only have 1 bow. ZERO versatility, no flexibility. And offhands arent much use without a 1 handed weapon.

My PVE ranger has at least 2 of every kind of bow (short, horn, recurve, long, flat) + a staff for trapping.

Please tell me some other way to reconcile those two types of characters so that they may have an equal opportunity in battle?

shadowfell · Jul 12, 2006, 03:46 PM // 15:46

4 of the 8 members of the last pride were pvp characters only.. It really didn't seem that this was a major issue in their win against WM. This folks, is the top shelf of pvp and I don't think the monks armor is what won the matches for them. It was strategy and preperation.

It appeared to me, that most of WM's players were also pvp exclusive. This did not stop them from rolling all over iB in the semis. This was strategy and flawless execution of a battle plan.

If this is such an issue to all of the pvp community, why aren't top guilds, and I mean, top guilds, not the r3-r6 fame farmed halls crowd, complaining in this thread about it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_L

oO?
You stated earlier that PvP chars have inventories and are able to use any weapons and items they grab from storage. This is simply not viable as weapons you pull from storage cannot be customized to the PvP character realistically. Not to mention the amount of expensive items that would get accidentally deleted due to PvPers recreating so frequently. What does recreating a PvE character have to do with it? And whats all this about a requirement in guilds ?

Keep your mind on what you are doing, and you won't delete an expensive item. And weapons are 'realistically' customized daily.

And yes, in some guilds, your equipment is supervised. Axes/swords/hammers, must be customized to the character for damage increase. Just like, they want to know their monks are using a 20/20 healing staff, not a 20/20 illusion staff. This is not a new practice. I see it all the time.

Man With No Name · Jul 12, 2006, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selket

You already have four weapon slots.

Are you sure about that =\

Fear my mighty Paint (c) skills !!!11

I count two and I've marked where the other two *should* be....

I was going two write a long winded post explaining how this move is key for balance, how laugable it is that PvP characters are less that optimal for their own game mode, Skill > Time, etc. I however won't -- half of the posts in this thread are as stupid as the ones found here:

http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gwpoll3to.jpg

The thread link: http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=407354

So I'd be wasting my time explaining to a good majority of people who have no clue of the importance of balance in a game that claims to be competitive. Just out of interest how many people would've proclaimed this:

http://www.guild-hall.net/forum/show...=Fissure+Armor

As a great idea ? (note JR's sarcasm =p)

I'm sure the changes are coming but it took an aweful long time to fix the HoD helm - I doubt we'll see an update like this till September at least.

JR · Jul 12, 2006, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Do you mind if i add this idea to the OP?

Not at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

There are much better ideas to "equalize" PvE and PvP, locking out inventories is not one of them.

...Would you like to justify that comment?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuoba Hturt Eht

....

All this, as opposed to simply not allowing armor or rune swapping through inventory locking? Sounds like a whole lot of hassle, but yes, it is another solution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamhunk

what people are asking here is to change the meta game! gw is not a fps! from a box it is an rpg!

It pains me when people who blatantly have no idea what this word means decide to use it. However it seems you have little idea as to what you are talking about in general.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selket

Two weapon sets?

You can select four individual items, therefore there are 4 different combinations and weapon sets.

That hardly allows for any flexibility at all with item selection.

Let's look at a monk, for example.

- You need a dual fast recharge set, wand and focus. That's one slot right there.

- You need +energy sword and general purpose focus, second slot.

- You need a +30/-2 energy set, third slot.

- You need a negative energy set, fourth slot.

Can you do that at the moment? No.

Cirian · Jul 12, 2006, 04:39 PM // 16:39

I think these ideas are in the right direction so...

/signed!

On the PvP equipment side, perhaps there should be an NPC smith who will only deal with PvP characters. This NPC can create PvP equipment for you in the same way as the PvP character creation screen, allowing a PvP character multiple suits of runed PvP armour and upgraded PvP weapons.

That will also eliminate the time wasted re-rolling your PvP character to change your PvP gear, getting you into the action that little bit quicker.

Ventius Hozza · Jul 12, 2006, 04:43 PM // 16:43

I think atm to sum up, more people would be happy to comply with this if we were asking PvP characters get more options and PvE characters stay the same. That's how the thread has progressed, away from locking inventories, to opening up PvP characters more.

If that's the case, then /signed

Big_L · Jul 12, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

4 of the 8 members of the last pride were pvp characters only.. It really didn't seem that this was a major issue in their win against WM. This folks, is the top shelf of pvp and I don't think the monks armor is what won the matches for them. It was strategy and preperation.

It appeared to me, that most of WM's players were also pvp exclusive. This did not stop them from rolling all over iB in the semis. This was strategy and flawless execution of a battle plan.

If this is such an issue to all of the pvp community, why aren't top guilds, and I mean, top guilds, not the r3-r6 fame farmed halls crowd, complaining in this thread about it?

Its already been stated and for the most part agreed on that its not a big advantage. I've used the word "slight" to describe it in this very thread. Its still an issue thats been widely discussed and recognized as in need of an adjustment. Furthermore, you dont know who I am, what guilds I've played for, or what rank I am, so lets keep the generalized assumptions out of it. I didn't call you a pve nub (and I'm still not).

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowfell

And weapons are 'realistically' customized daily.

For a pvp character? Where is the weapon smith in HA/TA/RA? It might be possible to customize items in the GH, but I haven't actually tried this TBH. Even if it were possible, rerolling that pvp slot would mean the weapon is useless. Are you suggesting that PvP chars should get a new weapon every time they reroll this way? There are MANY complications with your idea that PvP chars have access to just the same weapons and items that PvE characters do(not even considering armor btw). Explain to me how this is "realistic."

@Tuoba Hturt Eht
AFAIK your ideas are just as good (although seemingly a little more complicated than necessary) when it comes to a solution for this. Your approach seems to be more "add to pvp chars" as opposed to "remove the advantage from pve chars" which looks like its getting a bigger positive response despite the fact that its essentially the same thing. I honestly dont see why PvE players would give a damn either way as it does not affect their gameplay whatsoever. Asking them to play by the same restrictions as a PvP char in order to make things fair, doesn't seem like too much to ask imo, but whatever. I'll /sign either idea.

shadowfell · Jul 12, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_L

Its already been stated and for the most part agreed on that its not a big advantage. I've used the word "slight" to describe it in this very thread. Its still an issue thats been widely discussed and recognized as in need of an adjustment. Furthermore, you dont know who I am, what guilds I've played for, or what rank I am, so lets keep the generalized assumptions out of it. I didn't call you a pve nub (and I'm still not).

For a pvp character? Where is the weapon smith in HA/TA/RA? It might be possible to customize items in the GH, but I haven't actually tried this TBH. Even if it were possible, rerolling that pvp slot would mean the weapon is useless. Are you suggesting that PvP chars should get a new weapon every time they reroll this way? There are MANY complications with your idea that PvP chars have access to just the same weapons and items that PvE characters do(not even considering armor btw). Explain to me how this is "realistic."

First off, don't you even try to imply that I attempted to, or allude to, me calling anyone in this thread 'nub' or have come down on then in any way. Your statement has now gone way off topic and has turned to personal. I suggest you edit your statement, or redefine it.

As for customizing weapons, you can. And yes, realistically! And even in the private and serene surroundings of your own guild hall, both a pvp and a pve character can do this. Please prepare your statements with fact, before filling these threads with fiction if you have not determined the truth of the matter beforehand.

You are also, able to twink any item you wish, from your storage onto your pvp character. A rockmolder, a particular staff that strikes your fancy. Stop trying to imply that you cannot do these things without ease. These items are not auto customized. The only way you will lose them, is if you re-roll, and forget to remove them from the pvp characters inventory, or if you had customized the item and have now rendered it useless by re-rolling.

Talk about realism, there it all is, laid out rather nicely for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

shadowfell: Please agree or disagree with this statement:

If you roll a PvP char with ZERO items from your PvE chars (items in storage), you can be JUST as competitive and are on an even playing field as a fully grinded PvE char.

Yes its a trap.

If you agree, you contradict yourself, because you already said that PvErs have an advantage.

If you disagree, i wanna know why you accept this and dont want to resolve it.

I neither disagree with the statement, or agree with it because I never said that, ever, not one time in any of these 5 pages. Show me a post I made where I said "pve'rs have an advantage'. If you are going to set 'traps', make sure the bait exists. I disagree with your solution to what you view as a problem that seems to have no real bearing on the outcome of gvg and other forms of pvp anyhow between completed pvp slots and loaded pve toons because .. lol.. for the last time.. pve and pvp toons have access to the exact same equipment.

I agree that pvp toons should be able to choose, 4 sets of complete weapons, both primary and offhand, at character creation. This is a given, and why AN never initiated something like this, I will never know. As for, making armors available to pvp only characters (purchase with faction, 10k a piece)in pvp staging areas somewhere on the battle isles, I wouldn't be against that either. This would also be something nice to do with your faction after you have maxed out on skills and upgrades.

However, for locking inventory.. still ridiculous, still not signed.